Post by Johnzilla2179 on May 19, 2016 16:04:59 GMT -5
@mike ever get around to ranking the canon?
How about everybody else? DGTDWDRUMSpaulr3w1ndDAVIDJESSICAnotime2feardropd , and anybody I missed? Not that you have to reply or offer a ranking, I'm just very curious how everyone sees the entire output as opposed to the secular way the threads are organized.
Post by Johnzilla2179 on May 20, 2016 12:53:26 GMT -5
Well, as I iterated in my initial post, I just don't think it's anything special. I've listened to it several times all the way through and have yet to find anything that hasn't been done better by Tremonti and co. elsewhere. It's also important to note that while you said you liked it because it reminded you of Creed, I disliked it for the very same reason. If Tremonti was trying to distance himself from Creed he should have altered his songwriting a bit more. He gradually got there on subsequent Alter Bridge records, but at this point he was still in Creed mode. Coming from Creed, that's perfectly fine. Coming from a different band it just comes across as derivative (which is an odd thing to say since Tremonti is responsible for the music of both bands).
I've also mentioned that I don't really care for Myles Kennedy's voice or lyrics, and that holds true with the debut. Granted, Mark wrote the album by himself so Myles likely didn't contribute any words this time out, but the similarity to Creed again informs my feelings here. It sounds so close to the previous band that it's frankly jarring to hear a voice that's completely antithetical to Stapp's coming out of the mix. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Plus, the arrangements gradually got more and more progressive and intricate as the band continued to put out albums, culminating in Fortress, which most critics and also many fans feel is AB's best work (myself included). Typically you don't get that kind of response when you start out making "masterpieces." It's also important to note that One Day Remains was largely panned when it was first released.
Not that critical consensus should be the end-all be-all of any conversation (in my opinion it should never be), but it's important to point out that it's not just me who feels this way. When you listen to the album you hear a masterwork by a great songwriter. When I listen, I hear the growing pains of a great songwriter moving from one phase of his career to the next. And at points it's not really pretty. Nonetheless, there are still plenty of tracks that I like: "Find the Real", "Burn it Down", "Metalingus" and "Watch Your Words" are all killer. That said, I can't really claim that I "love" any of these tracks, and that's the fundamental difference between this album and the ones I ranked above it in my list.
(Side note: please don't think of me as a heartless bastard for not singling out "In Loving Memory." I'm heartbroken for Mark that he lost his mother so soon, but aside from sympathy this song just doesn't do anything special for me. But I also haven't listened to it in a while, so it might be time to revisit it and see if it's grown on me).
Any other questions, ElwoodBlues ? While we may not agree, this type of discussion is what I was trying to foster with this thread. (By the way, I'm a bit tired, so if some of this ramble is a little hard to understand let me know and I'll clarify once the caffeine kicks in :o )
EDIT: It just occurred to me that my prose is a tad redundant in this post to some of my others, so allow me to specify that there are TRACKS that I love on most all of the albums I ranked above ODR, though I gradually begin to love more and more of them as the list progresses from the bottom. I felt the need to clarify this as I said something similar about Dust a few posts ago, but I was merely speaking in terms of liking the album as a whole. There are definitely songs I love on that album (I just don't love it as a whole), but the same isn't really true for One Day Remains.
I don't think I care if the album sounds like creed or not, but one day remains for me is one of the finest modern rock albums ever, last time I heard tremonti being so soulfull. It's easily the best AB album for me by a huge margin. Myles shines on the album vocally, the compositions and words are so beautiful . in fact it sucks that tremonti had to change himself to run away from a sound that was so unique. It sucks that people gave the guy hell for his simplicity in music. I am hoping the new AB album brings back the old school vibe, doesn't mean I want them to sound exactly like they did in creed or early AB albums, I definitely want them to evolve, but not loose the identity in that process.
Post by Johnzilla2179 on May 20, 2016 14:33:27 GMT -5
That's just where we'll have to agree to disagree, then. I concur that Tremonti is much more soulful in his playing on ODR, most likely because he hadn't felt the need to press the pedal to the floor just yet, but I just don't hear anything special otherwise. As for the sound being "son unique", in what way? Do you mean his slower playing on average across all of his early material or just One Day Remains? Because I've never thought of ODR as anything resembling unique, as I've stated ad nauseam around here. It's interesting that you think AB "lost their identity" after this release. It seems to me that they actually found one after moving away from the standard Creed sound (unless you consider Creed 1.5 to be an identity, of course ).
That said, I think you're giving Mark's critics a little too much credit for his change in style. I've always gotten the impression that he WANTED to branch out a bit more but that he was placating his fanbase a bit with that first record (see also his solo thrash-inspired output). It's also important to note that Mark wrote all of ODR and Myles didn't really play guitar on the album, whereas on later albums he not only played but helped Mark write songs. Plus, even if Tremonti is responsible for the core tunes, Brian and Flip also contribute their own parts (or at least I assume Tremonti doesn't write the bass and drum parts, though I might be wrong on that one). The band didn't conscientiously "move away" from their original Creed-lite sound, they came into being as a unit again.
In all, I don't think Mark's move away from simpler material is calculated. I think he's just following his muse and has evolved. After all, he's been doing this for over 20 years. Not every band can be AC/DC.
EDIT: By the way, thembones , is your name a reference to the Alice In Chains song of the same name? If so, I wholeheartedly approve
I mean Mark's musical style. It was unique. Yes the mid tempo clean work was beautiful. Mark said he compiled his best ideas from 2000 to 2004 and put out as ODR. He has stated numerous times that people compared the album to creed, hence he felt the need to change. Music ain't about comparison like that is it? All in all, am glad the guy is making so much music today. But his work used to sound special to me, none of the albums post Blackbird really give me goosebumps, almost all the previous once do even today after 15 years .
Edit : yep, them bones is a reference to Alice In Chains. Huge fan of the band.
Post by Johnzilla2179 on May 26, 2016 12:34:16 GMT -5
Touche. I still think at least part of the change is from the other bands members contributing more to subsequent albums, but I digress. You mention goosebumps; save for select moments on Fortress, not a single Alter Bridge album nor song has ever done that for me. While that's likely all a matter of taste (good country music gives me twice as many goosebumps as a guitar wankoff), I still think it's important to note, if only to inform my own feelings on the album for others. All I Was gives me goosebumps, particularly on three of the last tracks: "Giving Up", the title track and "Decay." The former in particular strikes me as particularly prescient; listen to it and try not to think of Mark's relationship with Stapp when the album was released in 2012. I noticed that Mark thanked Scott in his liner notes on that first record, and I almost wonder if it was something of an ironic inclusion. "Thanks for inspiring so much of this material" or something like that. Either way, I find that first Tremonti record to be so affecting and grounded when compared with Cauterize and Dust, and even Alter Bridge (save for "In Loving Memory").
While I think the lyrics he wrote with Scott are better than what he writes alone (ditto for Stapp), they're still good. And more importantly with All I Was, he mostly just tells stories and expresses his feelings. There's no metaphysical or abstract tales of the world turning to ash and whatnot like on the double album. It's mostly just interpersonal conflict. While the songs border on the vague side more often than not (and that drives me nuts), the empathy I feel when listening to that record is startling. His guitar work is hard-hitting and ferocious, and I love it (coming from someone that prefers Metallica's self-titled "black album" to the rest of their output with the exception of Ride the Lightning, as I like a slow grind better than screeching tires). Goosebumps? All I Was is effectively a form of catharsis for me. Can't say the same for AB, much less One Day Remains. But the purpose of this post isn't to tear you down, but simply to illustrate my take on it with a comparison. Everybody has music they like that others may or may not share affection for, and all that matters is that one finds what they're looking for when listening. Screw the critics and snobs.
Also, on AiC, what'd you think of their newest albums? I miss Layne as much as the next guy, and they'll never replicate Facelift, Dirt or Jar of Flies, but they were decent metal to my ears. The production was quite terrible, though, but the material not half bad. Cantrell still knows how to write a weary riff. ElwoodBlues and I were talking about this the other day.
EDIT: If any of my statements here seem to be in conflict with posts I've put here and on other threads, keep in mind that when debating issues (particularly Creed) I prefer to pay devil's advocate and give every issue and party the benefit of the doubt. So I've said some things that might not be flattering to Mark and his solo work, just as I have Stapp (though I'm perhaps more inclined to defend the latter at this venture, whether he deserves it or not is another story). However, THIS post is my actual, honest opinion.
I like the new chains albums. Yes Layne can never be replaced, but as a new member duvall is one of the finest modern rock singers IMO. I liked the devil put dinasaurs here album, but loved black gives way to blue. That album was phenomenal for me. Wish they'd let duvall sing more on the newer stuff.
Post by ElwoodBlues on May 26, 2016 18:20:35 GMT -5
When I first started getting into music One of my favorite things I listened to allot was Facelift on cassette. Favorite songs were Sunshine n' Love ,Hate, Love ..good times ..I only listened to DPDH n' BGWTB once so I don't recall what I thought of them. Should probably give them another listen. Personally I think their Mtv unplugged concert is their greatest masterpiece.
We've dun it. A machine that can feel the whole spectrum of human emotion, sh*ty, crappy, sad, horny and hungry ..it can feel it all!